Re: [DNS] DNS and Spam

Re: [DNS] DNS and Spam

From: James Pearce <james.pearce§zdnet.com.au>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:36:57 +1000
The noun Spam is a form of tinned luncheon meat. Unsolicited (bulk etc)
e-mail is spam. However you may feel about said tinned luncheon meat, it
would be (and has been) considered libellous to link it to spam.

James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Finn" <sean&#167;teknol.com.au>
To: <dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 2:00 PM
Subject: RE: [DNS] DNS and Spam


> SPAM:
>
> Woolworths crap in your letterbox? heck no, its geographical blanket junk
> mail, not targeted. NOT SPAM.
>
> Win a house competitions with your name on it, targeted letters sent by
Aus
> Post? Not spam, they got your details from a competition to win a car for
> free in a supermarket or something. NOT SPAM.
>
> E.G. Company collects your *personal details* and sends targeted mail to
you
> via Aus.Post, when you DIDN't Sign up for a competition etc, and didn't
> specifically agree to receive promotional material?
> SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM
> SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM
> SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM
> SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM
> SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM
> (Ahem).
>
>
>
> My Summary:
>
> Modern SPAM is Unsolicited Mail. Wether it be Electroinic or Traditional.
> Spamming through a server sure costs money, but i think you are referring
to
> the verb SPAM, rather than the Noun Spam.
>
> SPAM(Noun) Unsolicited mail wether electronic or terrestrial.
> SPAM(Verb) To relay mail through an unwilling third party's mail server,
Or
> to send terrestrial mail-outs using someone else's bulk-order barcode.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .me  hands rod his ABN & passes .1c onto tax department as GST.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discount Domain Name Services [mailto:rod&#167;ddns.com.au]
> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 1:44 PM
> To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
> Subject: RE: [DNS] DNS and Spam
>
>
> Non electronic spam! Ian what is your understanding of spam!
> Have you or your company ever been spammed due to an open proxy??(Do you
> know what that is?)  Have you ever had to pick up a $550 data bill due to
> someone finding a hole in your system due to some outage or whatever(Do
you
> know what that is). This is the true meaning of spam stealing data from
web
> hosting companies or ISP's. Getting a few emails that are unsolicited use
> something like spam assassin to filter out that, but stealing data
(Spamming
> data) is a crime that is no different to shop lifting. To call sending out
> advertising via the mail spam is ridiculous that is like calling the
> woolworths brochure placed in your letterbox non electronic spam. I
> wholeheartly agree with the COC and how it has made the industry more
> accountable but you cannot stop shonky operators, witness the bank scams
of
> only a couple of weeks ago. Education not legislation.
> 1.1 cents worth
> Rod Keys
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Disspain [mailto:ceo&#167;auda.org.au]
> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 1:03 PM
> To: DNS List
> Subject: [DNS] DNS and Spam
>
>
>
>
> Ian,
>
> With respect, I do not agree with your analysis but do thank you for
> raising the issue which is an important one.
>
> " If auDA's and the ACCC's regulatory frameworks were effective,
> inappropriate market behaviour should, by and large, cease."
>
> It has, by and large, ceased. In the last 12 months the only major
> problems have been with companies 'outside' the industry (ie not
> registrars or resellers) and have involved the same group of people. I
> am not suggesting that the current situation with DNA is either
> satisfactory or acceptable. It is not and it is being dealt with.
>
> auDA does not rush to the DNS list or media flagging the action we are
> taking in response to 'scams'. It would be inappropriate for us to do
> so. However, we do (often in consultation with ACCC) take action as has
> been evidenced by the successful proceedings against IRA (taken by ACCC)
> and ING and NetRegister/Rafferty (taken by auDA).
>
> I think it is important to understand the meaning of the words being
> used so that we can be clear what we are discussing in this debate.
>
> You use the word 'industry' in several places in your email below. What
> do you mean by this? Do you mean those dealing with domain names in .au
> or those dealing with domain names generally? There is an important
> distinction here. For example, you will be aware that the vast majority
> of the DNA mail out is offering names in the gTLD spaces not in .au.
>
> You say " Indications are that these frameworks are, in part,
> ineffective - too cumbersome, slow, costly". Could you please clarify
> what frameworks you are referring to?
>
> You refer to desired outcomes not being achieved according to some
> community standards. What are the desired outcomes and what are the
> community standards to which you refer?
>
> You refer to ineffective deterrent and enforcement mechanisms. Which of
> the deterrent and enforcement mechanisms do you believe to be
> ineffective?
>
> I look forward to your response so that I may more properly answer the
> questions you are raising.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Chris Disspain
> CEO - auDA
> ceo&#167;auda.org.au
> www.auda.org.au
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Johnston [mailto:ian.johnston&#167;infobrokers.com.au]
> Sent: Friday, 25 July 2003 9:43 AM
> To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
> Cc: jon&#167;jonlawrence.com
> Subject: RE: [DNS] DNS and Spam
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kim Davies [mailto:kim&#167;cynosure.com.au]
> > Sent: 25 July 2003 3:11 AM
> > To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
> > Subject: [DNS] DNS and Spam
> > Sorry to take things off on a tangent a little..
>
> Kim, your not heading off on a tangent as I see it - you're spot on.
>
> I was about the post the following, in response to Jon Lawrence and
> Skeeve
> Stevens (see their emails below), when I saw your email.
>
> --
>
> The following comments and opinions are put forward with a view to
> advancing
> debate - I'm not wedded to them.
>
> If auDA's and the ACCC's regulatory frameworks were effective,
> inappropriate
> market behaviour should, by and large, cease.
>
> Indications are that these frameworks are, in part, ineffective - too
> cumbersome, slow, costly ...  That is, they are not achieving desired
> outcomes,
> according to some community standards.  That's what I hear many in the
> industry
> saying, and that's what I observe.
>
> Ultimately consumers of domain name services meet the cost of market and
> (any)
> regulatory failure.  Ineffective deterrent and enforcement mechanisms
> impose
> costs on auDA, ACCC, bona fide industry players and consumers.
> Consumers and
> taxpayers fund these mechanisms.
>
> With continuing market and regulatory failure - including failure due to
> the
> limitations of the regulatory framework(s) - the case for further
> government
> intervention seems compelling, unless the domain name industry /
> co-regulators
> can demonstrate that they can effectively deal with inappropriate market
> behaviour.
>
> I'm tending to the view that national legislation is probably required.
> For
> example, consideration might be given to addressing issues in the
> context of the
> (electronic) spam legislation announced yesterday by the Minister for
> Communications, Information Technolgy and the Arts
> <http://www.dcita.gov.au/Article/0,,0_1-2_15-4_115938,00.html>.
>
> A case could be made for the legislation to also deal with
> non-electronic spam
> relating to domain names.  Indeed, the case can be made for the
> legislation to
> address the domain name industry's and consumers' concerns.
>
> I'm away from email till much later today.
>
> Ian
>
>
> --
> Ian Johnston, Policy Consultant
> Small Enterprise Telecommunications Centre (SETEL)
> www.setel.com.au   mailto:ian.johnston&#167;setel.com.au
> 02 6251 7848 (B)   02 6251 7835 (F)   0413 990 112 (M)
>
> SETEL is a national small business consumer association
> advancing the interest of Australian small business
> as telecommunications and e-commerce consumers
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jon Lawrence [mailto:jon&#167;jonlawrence.com]
> > Sent: 24 July 2003 7:56 PM
> > To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
> > Subject: RE: [DNS] Domain Names Australia - How to stop them
> >
> >
> > If they're registering the names as a retail client, how do you
> identify
> > the order as coming from DNA? Block their email address? They'll just
> use
> > a different one.  Block their IP address? Ditto.
> >
> > It's my understanding that the appropriate manner in which to deal
> with
> > issues such as this where the party involved is operating outside of
> > a contractual
> > relationship with auDA is under the relevant provisions of the Trade
> Practices
> > Act, and/or state-based trading standards legislation.  I believe that
> auDA
> > is already pursuing this matter in conjunction with the ACCC.
> >
> > jon
> >
> > >-- Original Message --
> > >Reply-To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
> > >From: "Skeeve Stevens" <skeeve&#167;skeeve.org>
> > >To: <dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au>
> > >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:31:35 +1000
> > >Subject: [DNS] Domain Names Australia - How to stop them
> > >
> > >Ok. Am I completely on the wrong track here. or isn't it quite easy
> to
> > >stop people like Domain Names Australia.
> > >
> > >When something happens like their current campaign, auDA should issue
> an
> > >order to all current registrars, including AusRegistry, to not accept
> > >any more domain applications from DNA.
> > >
> > >That way, any money they do collect, is simply classified as fraud,
> > >since they haven't actually provided a service (i.e. Domain Name).
> > >
> > >Maybe auDA needs to update policies and their registrar agreements,
> so
> > >that they can issue a 'Block' when someone launches a campaign like
> > >this.
> > >
> > >Is this on the right track?
> > >
> > >If you block their ability to register domains. then they are simply
> out
> > >of business.. How easy is that?
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________________
> > >Skeeve Stevens, RHCE     Email: skeeve&#167;skeeve.org
> > >Website: www.skeeve.org  - Telephone: (0414) 753 383
> > >Address: P.O Box 1035, Epping, NSW, 1710, Australia
> > >
> > >eIntellego - skeeve&#167;eintellego.net - www.eintellego.net
> > >_______________________________________________________
> > >Si vis pacem, para bellum
>
> --
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kim Davies [mailto:kim&#167;cynosure.com.au]
> > Sent: 25 July 2003 3:11 AM
> > To: dns&#167;lists.auda.org.au
> > Subject: [DNS] DNS and Spam
> >
> >
> > Sorry to take things off on a tangent a little..
> >
> > I haven't been following recent spam developments in Australia lately,
> > but the flurry of articles in the media has been hard to miss...
> >
> > One article that caught my eye was at
> > http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?id=589997653&fp=16&fpid=0
> > which reads in part:
> >
> >     Notably, the legislation also contains major concessions to
> >     the direct marketing industry, who will be allowed to continue
> >     to harvest Australian e-mail addresses on .com.au sites on the
> >     Internet, essentially for the purpose of business to business
> >     marketing.
> >
> > Is this true? Surely this represents a fundamental loophole and
> > misunderstanding of the role of second level domains.
> >
> > Having an email address end in .com.au does not at all signify that
> the
> > users of that domain are commercial enterprises. On the contrary, many
> > (most?) ISPs in Australia hand out email addresses under this 2LD to
> all
> > their customers.
> >
> > Secondly, such practice seemingly legitimises spamming .com.au domain
> > holders for the purposes of domain name renewal.
> >
> > I sincerely hope this is either an oversimplification or the author
> got
> > it wrong. I'd hate to see .com.au die off because it became some
> > legitimated spammer refuge.
> >
> > kim
> >
> >
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Received on Fri Oct 03 2003 - 00:00:00 UTC

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